Welcome to Samvaad, where art meets conversation, and inspiration knows no bounds. Here we engage in insightful conversations with eminent personalities from the art fraternity. Through Samvaad, Abir Pothi aims to create a platform for thought-provoking discussions, providing readers with an exclusive glimpse into the creative processes, inspirations, and experiences of these creative individuals. From curating groundbreaking exhibitions to pushing the boundaries of artistic expression, our interviews shed light on the diverse perspectives and contributions of these art luminaries. Samvaad is your ticket to connect with the visionaries who breathe life into the art world, offering unique insights and behind-the-scenes glimpses into their fascinating journeys.
In this enlightening conversation (SAMVAAD), we delve into the intricate intersection of architecture, art, and urban design with Vishal Shah, a seasoned architect and passionate educator. Through an engaging dialogue, Vishal shares his insights on the potential of architectural projects, the importance of integrating art into urban spaces, and the dynamics of collaboration between disciplines. From revitalising historical landmarks to fostering creative discourse in the community, Vishal offers a glimpse into his journey as both a practitioner and a teacher, shedding light on the evolving landscape of design in contemporary society. Join us as we explore the blend of tradition and innovation, the essence of creative partnerships, and the role of architects as catalysts for positive change in our built environment. Joining us for this insightful conversation is Nidheesh Tyagi from Abir Pothi, as we uncover the visionary insights driving the creative force behind Vishal Shah’s design landscapes.
To read the previous parts: Click here
Nidheesh: No, I think like Chandigarh and Bhilai, these are great examples in terms of almost everything. The whole new middle class came from these places. At the same time, you know, there was a bit of imposition in terms of retaining or claiming the old culture and the continuity of those things. But clearly, I think that is one thing which India has not considered much, right? I think post-60s probably, but then that’s adding too much pressure on the cities. You’re also a teacher, so you know, tell me about what you teach and how, and we’re talking about integrating different disciplines into architecture and design.
Vishal: I have been teaching since a very young age, and initially, of course, it was more about those one-to-one things with the students and also keeping myself updated, challenged with the kind of new ideas that the students come up with to kind of also keep up in terms of space, in terms of technology, in terms of new things that are coming in. Initially, it was much more of that. But off late, since the last 5-7 years, it has been more about pedagogy. It has been more about, you know, moulding the entire system, especially of Education, that how we can still keep it relevant. And that’s where this whole idea of cross-disciplinary learning, interdisciplinary learning, trans-disciplinary learning kind of comes in. That’s where as a teacher, as somebody who is also working towards the systems, we felt that we need to bring in more disciplines, and it should not remain in terms of a silo. Like, suppose we are talking about architecture education, so it should not just remain as a silo.
It has to kind of also have Arts as an allied thing, planning or technology as a like thing. And that’s why, since the last 3-4 years, we have been actively trying to do that and have been doing multiple courses and also fusing them together in terms of their learning. And we are seeing some very promising outcomes of that wherein the students have started also becoming more open to new things. And as we are seeing that there is a big change that is happening in the way I would not use the word practice, but the way we do any occupation or any profession. It has changed a lot. It has come out of or it is almost out of this whole silo mechanism wherein if you are an architect, you are only supposed to do this, if you are this, you are only supposed to do this.
Now, there are people who are going into finance, finance people coming into sales, and you know, there are people who are good at art also trying to kind of influence your choices related to art, maybe they have no formal degree into that. Okay, so recently there’s this big hue and cry about there are a lot of finance influencers that are there who are not qualified as, you know, finance experts, but still, you know, they are kind of being followed and all these social media changes and the kind of visual information that is bombarded. We feel that as teachers, it is our responsibility to make students think about how critically they can evaluate all these things, how they can find out what is to be followed or what needs to be innovated rather than just getting, you know, carried away by the currents that are happening. Rather than… and of course, now when information is available at fingertips, nobody is going to come to colleges or formal education for information. They are going to come to understand or to learn how this information can be applied or how they can be critically experiential knowledge, yeah, so experiential knowledge also and how this can be critically transformed into something that can innovate or change the world. That’s where we’ll also have to challenge ourselves as teachers, and as an education system, and of course, the students will also have to rise up to that occasion. that is where teaching comes as a very important aspect of my personal being, that how that is affecting me and it keeps me challenged all the time and stops me from being complacent to kind of, you know, stop searching for new things.
Nidheesh: How do you balance these two things? Like, you know, being a teacher, which is, like, you know, in its own way, it requires lots of investing your time and, you know, and then practising, which is, like, again, quite an applied thing, yeah.
Vishal: I basically, you know, if I have to talk philosophically, this is an investment of time, as you mentioned, that whatever time I give for teaching is my investment in terms of gaining knowledge, keeping myself afresh, challenging myself in terms of doing new things, and, you know, keep myself surrounded by young, budding ideas, energies, and a lot of positive energies. That’s what kind of helps me in the other half wherein, you know, I kind of come up with freshness, I kind of come up with a lot of experimentation, and kind of, you know, also challenge my team that, okay, know this is what is happening, and, you know, if you are not going to adapt to this, then, you know, you’ll be out of the race or whatever the, you know, you won’t be relevant in today’s time. That’s as far as the philosophical look at or outlook of this entire thing. If you look at something which is very professional and system-oriented thing, I always have been considerate of the fact that if I want to do these things, I cannot do it alone. I’ll have to have people who are equally partnering with this idea, and of course, down the line, a team who believes in this. And that’s how this entire almost two-decade-long journey has been of building a team, of building partnerships, and all. Normally, when we look at architects, artists, designers, you know, we are always kind of trained as if, you know, we are individuals, and, you know, it’s not okay to have a consensus on design kind of a thing, that, you know, we are individuals, and we should have our creative differences every time. But when it comes to profession, I think there has to be some sort of a common ground that needs to be reached and those kinds of things. And thinking approach has helped me to have very good partners and a team that now helps me to spare my time for a lot of different things than the regularities of a practice.
Nidheesh: you have a team of about 35-40 people. How many of them are your students?
Vishal: Including my partner, everybody is my student.
Nidheesh: yes, I want to ask about how you experience art personally. I mean, how do you, when you look at or you go to see places, how do you experience art? What is your take on that?
Vishal: See, I am not a camera person, so I would like to sink into the place. Rather than clicking things, I would want to kind of soak in things. That is my way of looking at things. And that’s why a lot of my experience and my references, come from the travels that I have done, whether it is in India or abroad. And normally, even the family vacations are done in a fashion that you know you get to see more and more new things, you get to soak up the culture, the food, the place, the people, and all those kinds of things. And some of the other how these learnings, they come from there. And so is the essence of aesthetics.
I feel that you know a lot of our work is influenced by people or architects like Geoffrey Bawa from Sri Lanka. Even we like the works of Geoffrey Bawa al and we like the works of Corbusier to a certain extent. Both of them used to employ art in a very different manner, but both of them used to have art as a part of that. But why do we say that okay we are more influenced in terms of the process, not as the final product, but the process of Geoffrey Bawa these things were an integral part of the design process. Even if he wanted to do colours of the interiors or kind of design ceiling, he had these artists with him whom he would give this, that okay, you know this is a blank thing, this is a sketch, that is the space, now please you know you add your colours to it, you add your art to it and make it a part of the process of the designing thing. It’s not something that is kind of stuck from above as a later addition. That is where our references also come in. Whenever we also design, we always kind of take this as an integral part of the entire process. There are a couple of artists, a couple of people from the art field who are kind of an extension of our office. Whether it is textiles, whether it is paintings, whether it is metal art, whether it is anything that has to do even lighting and all. From the very beginning, we get into that mode, so they become a part of our interior design or the space design concept. That is how the practice looks at art and the practice looks at the processes that are there.
Nidheesh: We Abir Pothi is also a kind of one of the good ports for lots of young and emerging artists. Air India Foundation works for most of the artists coming from the Hinterland, right? what do you tell them, you know, being a practising architect and a teacher who’s trying to integrate art into architecture and design? what do you tell them to how do they kind of, you know, find more takers like you?
Vishal: I think one thing that is there, and what even I was explained about Abir Pothi and this whole reaching out to masses, is something that all the artists should start coming on platforms like this. I think that way, social media on the positive side is also helping a lot in terms of reaching different kinds of people. Like, As you will see, of course, that’s only the start point of it, but at least it gives you that start point, reaching multiple entry points. I think that is something that they should start doing because that’s where most of us also get our information from. And I think that is how a lot of integration will start happening across, like what I was talking about in terms of education, that the students from different fields, you know when they study together, they start kind of creating new things. Similarly, here, the professionals, the artists, and the designers also have to come together in this creation process, this whole cross-pollination. And yes, so then, everyone will start kind of influencing each other in a positive manner, in a creative manner. I would suggest that more and more people should kind of start getting into this kind of collaborative working.
Nidheesh: But one of the things is that you know, I mean when we, I’m a small town person, I mean when I was growing up, now I’m not, but then, so there are two things to it. How do you fit into the wider structure? And to do that, you want to sound like you know, hip and contemporary. And the second is, you know, how to have that whole authentic aesthetic, the character of the place, the ecosystem, the geographies we come from. There should be some kind of mix between these two things, right? But then, where do we, how do we get to, you know, this, like we’re talking about this, the sailors and the boatmen?
Vishal: This struggle is real for everyone, like, you know, even as architects, also this struggle is every time it’s there, like, you know, whether you give into the scale-up game, whether you stick to what you want to do and kind of, you know, have your own niche. Every individual will have to decide, and once they are, you know, conforming to that, then start searching for people who conform to these ideas or those who are a part of that circle. And I think then this cross-pollination thing will work amazingly. Just to give you an example, like, you know, when we shifted to our old office maybe almost around 17-18 years back, at that point in time, we just came across one artist who had his office just below ours. And that’s where we actually first met. And just by virtue of being in the same place, and then we started kind of interacting. Slowly, slowly, when you start kind of exchanging ideas, we thought that he is a very integral part of our design. He can become a very integral part of our design process. Whether it is, you know, paintings, whether it is detailing out certain surfaces or doing something in metal, we appoint him as a part of our team whenever we are designing. Yeah, so last year, we shifted our office from that place to this place. And within six months, he was like, no, I cannot, you know, keep my creative pursuits away from you guys. He also kind of shifted to the same place and moved into the same place. And I think this is how it kind of becomes a part of the larger creative processes. I feel this is something that, you know, everybody will have to find their own niche and collaborative spaces, and everyone will have to give into that. You cannot kind of keep on holding things and then I will do everything kind of thing.
Nidheesh: if I’m just a young artist out of college, or maybe I’m not from a college, I’m just like a self-taught artist, how do I approach you? How do I get to you?
Vishal: You can straight away come to me.
Nidheesh: Not here, so what do I do? I mean I’m just talking about in the sense that how does a person get to somebody who is actually willing to collaborate with younger people? I mean, what is the mechanism, you think?
Vishal: In fact, you know, I was not thinking of this thing, but since you asked this question when we made our new office, we have specifically designed the centre of the office in a way that anybody, any young artist, creative person, anyone who wants to come and share their work, display their work, bring people, can use that place on a weekend free of cost. And that is our idea, that is what at this juncture we can provide as a platform to people. That’s our way of reaching out to the creative community. Similarly, like, you know, anybody can come to us and say, “Okay, I would like to display my work,” or “I would like to just, you know, bring in people and want to have a critique of my work.” We had artists who would say, “Okay, you know, I am just a single person who is working and I keep on working, but there’s nobody to kind of comment on my work. Can you arrange a session wherein I will present my work and get your feedback on that?” these kinds of things can also be done. Basically, a place for creative discourses. Yes, so that is what, as professionals, as designers, as architects, we can offer. Number one. Two, you know, as I was already mentioning, that approach us, and we are open to new things. We are open to new ideas. We are open to, you know, bringing you also as a part of our design processes and working.
Nidheesh: That’s such a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for this interview, Vishal, and I wish you all the best.
Vishal: Thank you!
