Welcome to Samvaad, where art meets conversation, and inspiration knows no bounds. Here we engage in insightful conversations with eminent personalities from the art fraternity. Through Samvaad, Abir Pothi aims to create a platform for thought-provoking discussions, providing readers with an exclusive glimpse into the creative processes, inspirations, and experiences of these creative individuals. From curating groundbreaking exhibitions to pushing the boundaries of artistic expression, our interviews shed light on the diverse perspectives and contributions of these art luminaries. Samvaad is your ticket to connect with the visionaries who breathe life into the art world, offering unique insights and behind-the-scenes glimpses into their fascinating journeys.
This is Part 3 of the Samvaad is between Nidheesh Tyagi from Abir and Jaya Jaitly who is best known for her contributions to the promotion and preservation of Indian handicrafts and textiles. Jaitly has played a significant role in the development of the Indian handicraft sector and has been an advocate for the rights and welfare of artisans. She has been actively involved in various organisations working towards the empowerment of artisans and the promotion of traditional crafts. Jaya Jaitly has also written extensively on Indian crafts, culture, and social issues.
Nidheesh: There are so many schools for art, design and architecture; Where are we in terms of education in terms of crafts itself in some we organise, and then take it to the next level where it can find a better manifest and a global spread.
Jaya: I feel that there is a huge resurgence in the interest of craft now. Partly because of something that I occasionally rumble about which is the internet. Because there is a lot of online promotion. Karigars today, have their own Facebook, they try to set up their own websites also, and of course (about) online marketing I will share a fact and that is that every karigar that comes to our bazaars- and we cover about 500-600 a year like that- all of them I’ve asked and they say that one bazaar gives them a better sale than an entire year of online sale.
So online is okay for when you are not at a bazaar. Online is okay if you are abroad, but the thing that when you are abroad, you work with the Western expectation that there will be exact standardisation, exact size exact colour that u see, whereas if you see any honest website, they will say you will not get the same thing because these are all made by hand.
Nidheesh: Absolutely.
Jaya: And that’s why I also have another track of promotion which is to say that when human beings are not standardized, why should our utpaadan (manufacturing), be standardized? Why should we be made to think and act like machines? Why not appreciate the fact that each human being brings out 6 different types of things? And if you want say a kulhad of tea, why can the measure be of a cup but the kulhad can be of any size? Because it’s like us, we measure ourselves as human beings. We need to be a certain thing we need to be a certain level of education, some understanding some experience, some decent behaviour. But we don’t have to look alike. Or be the same size.
Why do we impose this on the most basic thing that human beings can do which is to produce something with their hands? And I think that- and associated with climate change. Use the material that is near you, the materials will grow at different times. The sun will be of different intensity at different times. So you do not expect the same neel rang (blue colour) to come out of dye in a particular weather or some other weather. We are forgetting that we are part of nature. We are not separate and we cannot be dictating to the rest of the world. As if the rest of the world is a machine. So I don’t know. I feel very strongly about these things and as long as I’m able to do something about it, I keep talking or demonstrating through the work.
Nidheesh: Of course, I think crafts cannot be taken to some industrial level. But at the same time, do you also feel that there is a change in terms of our storytelling of various crafts, material which we do?
Jaya: Yes craft is rooted in storytelling. You cannot sell crafts without selling its story. And whenever I have a little influence, say on, design schools like NIFT or NID, when I talk to the students, I always say “In all your projects, go talk to the craftspeople. Let them tell you, let them be the teachers. Learn the stories. The story is just as important as the actual technicalities of the production.” and I think they are changing they are loving craft now whereas 20 years ago, NID itself told me that, “we are not interested so much in crafts because we are industrial thinking. We want to design cars. Not craft”. But today, they have a strong crafts department they have many faculty who are very devoted to it and there can be no fashion or design institute in India today that does not take into consideration very strongly the craft element of India. So I’m quite proud of those changes and I think it has a lot of potentials. Indian designers are also making a more big name abroad. But I’m not so concerned about abroad I wish they would make as big a name among our normal population and our lower middle class or 2nd and 3rd level of small town. Don’t try to wear frocks and stuff, they should appreciate the Indian fashion for the Indian body and the Indian culture, is always better to have a comfortable Indian design dress. So let’s see. We all have to do our bit.
Nidheesh: One thing I wanted to picture your thoughts about was, people from my generation have gone through this. At one level we are all looking at safeguarding our sustainability, jobs, and future, and that has also alienated us from our cultural literacy. So there’s an educational literacy which is totally not connected to cultural literacy. And that shows in our schooling the way we grow. And even our own language is not just a craft its also language and the local geography and looking at those things in life. What do you think, what can we do as a society to bring this or align this cultural interest with the educational interest?
Jaya: Well, you know there are so many levels of education. There’s the government school, and then there’s the private school which is not so elitist and then there are the elite schools. Interestingly enough, the elite schools are quite Indianizing now. They all want that festival occasions for children to wear Indian dress. They will teach them things in Hindi or whatever. Their performances are very culturally rooted. So there is that. But the thing is that there is so much use of new technology, of computer-driven work that that technology does not offer anything about culture.
Nidheesh: True
Jaya: So there is a kind of a parallel thing which sometimes I think seriously clashes, but if there is a strong sense of Indianness instilled, and it doesn’t have to be old fashioned Indianness. That’s why I’m saying that the- like going for a moment back to my parliament thing. One of the art installations is called Samrasta . Samrasta for unity in diversity or harmony. But in Samrasta the whole we put printing blocks. Hand-carved block printing blocks from all over India. Plus wood carving from all over India. So that was as it is a diversity engraving and in wood. We mixed with that, metalwork. Metalwork of all kinds of metal from all over India. Including Taala chaabi, Karchi Ordinary things. Not very decorative. When we mixed the two together, the composition collage we made was like a very modern high-rise skyline. So my point in that was that with the traditional building block of our heritage, we will build a new India. So it was like a contemporary skyline but with the building blocks of old. That was the kind of message that I wanted to convey in that.
Nidheesh: Is there also social discrimination against people who work in crafts? There’s a clear, we can see a caste diminution to it. But beyond caste, there’s also socio-economic discrimination and there are load of tribal who are part of it. There are lots of people who are into crafts and they still work with that. So have done enough to bring that towards.
Jaya: If you don’t approach it as a caste-related thing- a solution that you have to find but look at it as a marketing-related solution. As an upgrade in marketing. Now there are tribals like the Gond. they are running lacs per painting. Then there is the Ajrak printing of Kach. They are also earning lacs. Now when you have the parents getting respect for their skill and earning revenue and respect. Two Rs which have to go together. Then the children don’t go to silly jobs and factories and other places. They stay home and they eat their own ghar ke roti (chappatis of their home), they will work with their father or mother any time of the day that they feel like it and they go out abroad and there are 3rd and 4th generations now who are proudly carrying on.
But then you have others, for instance, say Bihar, there are weavers family where the parents tell me, “Our son is working in a mall as a lift boy. We don’t want him to be a weaver in the village because he will not find a bride. If you say “bunkar hai” (He is a weaver) because of the caste they won’t. But if you say “mall mein kaam karr raha hai” (He is working in a Mall), he’ll get a bride. So there are certain communities and societies in certain states that are a little stuck in the old mould and you see it in politics also. The same states will also be doing caste-related voting. But in many other states which have an enterprising approach, and that includes south north east west anybody I am not picking out. Then the craftspeople stand on their own feet because you give them a marketing opportunity and chances to go abroad and have some self-worth and pride.
Nidheesh: and get their story out.
Jaya: and foreigners, if you tell them the story in any language they understand the language of skill and craft and art. They don’t mind. So I think that it really is, a lot of it is a market but not the kind of market that the Westerners think should be a market of huge numbers. Big profit. Not like that.
Vaishnavi Srivastava is a learning writer, a keen researcher and a literature enthusiast. She is a Sub-editor at Abir Pothi.
